John grew up in December 1167. He had been at most 21 and you may maybe younger than simply that if their child Joanna came to be. She may well was in fact the fresh oldest of the many college students the guy fathered because of the their certain mistresses.
1187 June - John when you look at the France whenever Chateauroux had been besieged 1187 Summer 23 - truce 1188 The month of january. 31 - Henry production in order to England, possibly having John during the tow 1188 Summer - Henry delivers John returning to Normandy, crosses of 1189 Summer twelve - John during the Le Man's when disarmed by Henry's purchase, and then John fled otherwise is contributed aside for safety 1189 July 6 - Henry We passes away in the France 1189 Aug. twelve - Richard will bring John returning to The united kingdomt which have him 1189 Aug. 31 - John married to Isabelle out of Gloucester from the Marlebridge 1189 September. 3 - Richard crowned in the Westminster Abbey 1189 October. - Richard delivers John towards the Wales so you can subdue new edgy Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned so you're able to Normandy and you will pushed with the oath to not ever put legs toward The united kingdomt for a few age 1190 June - Richard continues on campaign [John vacation trips their oath] For our purposes, it is considered that the very first period, additionally the very most likely going back to Joanna to possess come conceived, 's the 1187-nine months. 1187 - John spends virtually the year within the France 1188 - John possess gone back to The united kingdomt from inside the January, however, by the june is distributed back to France, where the guy seems to have remained 1189 - John appears to be into the France January - August, returning to The united kingdomt inside August in preparation having his wedding to your 30 Aug. In the event that John produced no more unrecorded productivity so you're able visit this site right here to The united kingdomt, it seems that he invested about 80% from his date of January 1187 up until his marriage, in France . He was at some point considering the County from Mortain, into the Normandy (in advance of Richard's coronation).
The aforementioned information, considering the months and also the fact that Joanna try put to help you England regarding France during the 1203 having their wedding to Llywelyn, lends credence to your proven fact that Joanna and her mother have been regarding French/Norman source.
Provided and John's really-identified philandering during this time, around appears to be many applicants into the character off mommy regarding Joanna!
After an alternative enough time search however, I am able to come across no shade from an effective Clemence de Dauntsey inside the this new details
My previous post provided the information that Paget revealed that it was Clemence de Dauntsey, just who partnered Nicholas de Verdun. I believed that it was the Nicholas and you will Clementia in order to whom Henry 111 supplied the brand new custody regarding Susanna (as the an effective hostage) inside 1228. I did so pick however, the fresh new advice of a single genealogist just who obviously said it as…’ In my opinion that we (brand new genealogists) have established that there is actually no for example people because Clemence de Dauntsey. You to personality of spouse off Nicholas de- Verdun are a good blunder from the Paget!’
Clemence ce Boteler came into this world regarding the 1175 within the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire
I am willing to accept that end, because the then investigation of your info of second Clemence turned-out far more fruitful.
Clemence ce Boteler married Nicholas de Verdun within the 1202 (his 2nd partner shortly after their marriage so you can Joan Fitz Piers. Notice, which relationships isn’t shown) in the Alton, Staffordshire plus they had one child, Rohese de- Verdun who was born inside 1203 otherwise 1205 (passed away. Feb 1247).
If, in fact, Joanna try the consequence of a good liaison ranging from John and you can Clemence le Boteler (who does have been old around 14-15 at that time), it can were very hard on Ce Boteler nearest and dearest to get the ideal husband having Clemence. In fact particular ten years pass just before a great ily?) that have a trustworthy English nobleman and you may possessions holder, Nicholas de- Verdun. Making aside for the moment the possibility that Nicholas had fell in love with the new twenty-seven year-old Clemence and you will planned to get married their unique, it can have been important for John to add Clemence which have particular assets from her own making sure that she turned into a far more attractive award having their unique husband to be.